8/15/25 Larry Johnson on the Trump-Putin Summit

·1 hr 9 min·5 clips

A former CIA officer exposes a $48 billion kickback scheme implicating 23 members of Congress in Ukraine funding.

Scott Horton interviews former CIA officer Larry Johnson about the anticipated Trump-Putin summit and the Russia-Ukraine war. Johnson, who runs the analysis site Sonar 21, provides a skeptical insider's perspective on U.S. foreign policy and intelligence. Johnson details the specific timing of the summit, noting it was scheduled for 11:30 a.m. Alaska time, with significant outcomes not expected until late afternoon on the East Coast. He analyzes the delegations, pointing out Russian Defense Minister Belousov is the only military figure, while Trump's team is composed entirely of economic officials. Johnson cites poorly translated signage and a pre-established media center as evidence of behind-the-scenes planning. He argues the meeting's focus will be economic cooperation and potentially restarting nuclear arms control talks. Johnson recounts Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov telling him the 2022 Istanbul peace deal, based on a Ukrainian draft, was sabotaged by the U.S. and Boris Johnson. He states Russia subsequently annexed four oblasts after referendums showing over 80% support. Johnson claims the Russian military has more than doubled in size and now outproduces the combined West in artillery shell production, citing NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte. He disputes CIA casualty figures given to journalist Seymour Hersh, arguing Russian combat deaths are closer to 150,000, not two million. Johnson asserts the core conflict is about NATO expansion eastward since 1997, not Russian territorial ambition. He predicts Russia will ultimately take Odessa unless Ukraine accepts Russia's annexations and removes NATO. Johnson describes his recent trips to Moscow, contrasting the clean, advanced subway stations and lack of visible police with Western media portrayals. He notes an absence of racial tension and peaceful coexistence between the Russian Orthodox majority and Muslim population. Johnson traces Western animosity toward Putin to 2003, when Putin opposed the Iraq invasion, citing a shift in media tone from favorable to negative. He recalls Putin offering full support to Bush after 9/11, only for the U.S. to abandon the ABM treaty weeks later. Johnson recounts a lunch in Moscow where every Russian present had a family member die in World War II, highlighting the war's profound cultural trauma compared to the American experience. The tone is conversational and deeply skeptical, blending personal anecdote with policy analysis from a former intelligence professional. The style is educational, drawing on historical parallels and insider knowledge to critique mainstream narratives. Listeners interested in alternative viewpoints on U.S.-Russia relations and critiques of the intelligence community will find this episode compelling. Those who prefer analysis that aligns with official U.S. government or mainstream media positions on the Ukraine war will likely disagree with its perspectives.

As heard by us

A blunt look at Ukraine, frozen conflict, and the risk of an unresolved end state.

The episode stays centered on Ukraine war questions, especially what any settlement might leave behind, how Russian speaking regions are treated, and why frozen conflicts so often refuse to stay frozen.

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Why you'd press play

If you want a hard-edged Russia-Ukraine conversation from a longtime antiwar host, press play.

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