The Masculine Wilderness Podcast · Epik Project

Healing the Wound: Masculinity, Exploitation & the Power of Story with Penny Ronning

·1 hr 1 min·2 clips

Lauren opens the show by warning listeners that the conversation includes sexual assault. Tom Perez welcomes people back and explains that the show has been building for over a year around a simple question: how can men show up as the healthiest version of themselves? He says that work has changed him too, and he adds that any real conversation about masculinity has to include women. Penny Ronning joins as the head of the Yellowstone Anti-Trafficking Task Force in Montana. Tom greets her with light humor before the conversation settles into trafficking as a human crime rather than a city-only problem. Penny pushes back on the idea that rural places are somehow outside it. She says that wherever there are humans, there is the possibility of humans hurting other humans. She points to her own experience, including her mother being trafficked in rural South Dakota and her life in a very rural state. The conversation keeps returning to the way violence is hidden by silence. Penny notes that sex and sexual violence get covered up in many ways, especially in rural areas. The two of them talk through the old scripts people inherit about men, women, boys, and girls. Penny points to the familiar line that boys will be boys. She ties that to the roles society assigns to men and women in rural life, in farming, and in religion. Tom asks how those stories shape the public picture of trafficking. Penny answers by naming the assumptions people make when they picture a farmer. Most people imagine a man. She reminds listeners that women are there too, doing essential work that is often simply not seen. The conversation widens from farms to movies, churches, and broader social norms. Penny suggests those stories teach people what to ignore. Tom stays in the questions and keeps reflecting her language back to her. That gives the discussion room to stay careful without becoming clinical. The episode keeps its attention on how exploitation is sold, hidden, and normalized. It also keeps returning to the need for men to speak honestly about what they feel. Near the end, the tone softens into gratitude and shared relief. Tom says the work has too long been suppressed. Penny agrees that there is healing in being able to talk about it and even laugh while doing so. The closing exchange feels warm, but it does not let the subject become light. It leaves the listener with a plain idea: naming the harm is part of the repair.

As heard by us

A steady, hard conversation about masculinity, trafficking, and listening to women.

This episode frames masculinity in a way that leaves room for women, and Penny Ronning gives the discussion a grounded edge by tying it to trafficking, sexual violence, and the pressure of traditional roles.

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Why you'd press play

For a clear, humane talk about masculinity, trafficking, and healthier ways of showing up.

Read the full recommendation in PlayNext →

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